Everything You Need to Know About Hedge Funds

By Stephen Rosen on February 17, 2022

Investing with stocks and bonds can be a risky process if you don’t have a lot of time to manage them. Hedge funds can be a much more stable and low-risk alternative.

In this episode, Stephen Rosen reveals what clients and investors should know about hedge funds, exposing the myths attached to them and outlining their benefits so you can make an informed decision about whether they might be right for you.

Stephen discusses:

• What a hedge fund is and its origins
• Myths attached to hedge funds
• How hedge funds are regulated
• Who is a good client for a hedge fund
• And more

[00:00:00] You invest your money strictly in stocks and bonds. If so, it’s time to change that. Welcome to approach investing differently with me, Stephen Rosen, from Hightower Bethesda. I’ve been advising clients for over 20 years on how to invest in alternative investments. And I’ll explain why you should dedicate a percentage of your investible assets to hedge funds,

[00:00:23] private equity and real estate in order to maximize returns and create a more efficient investment portfolio. Now onto the show.

[00:00:37] Hedge funds may have an interesting reputation. Especially with people who don’t understand them, but think they do. Stephen Rosen knows hedge funds and he is here to help dispel the myths and the misunderstandings. I’m Patrice Sikora. And Stephen while I really want to start with an explanation of a hedge fund later in this podcast, we do need to explore why they are so [00:01:00] misunderstood, but okay.

[00:01:01] Let’s start with the definition first. What is a hedge fund? So, Patrice thanks for coming along with me again. And I appreciate the time looking forward to our third podcast. And I think the first two were quite successful from the feedback that we’ve gotten. So thank you with respect to hedge funds and what they really are.

[00:01:21] They’re traditionally investment vehicles that are very much e-liquid investments, which means you can’t sell them on a day-to-day basis. They’re traditionally utilized for sophisticated investors who are looking for opportunities to make money, regardless of whether or not the market is going up or down.

[00:01:41] And for those of us who utilize them for what they are supposed to do, which is hedge out risk. It’s a vehicle that should not go down as much as the market goes down when it goes down, nor should we expect it to go up as much as the market does when things go higher. And that a lot of times is where the rub starts [00:02:00] because people just don’t quite understand what the true objectives of the hedge funds are.

[00:02:04] It’s funny when they see the market going up, they always say, yes, yes, yes. And then when it goes down to say, well, what happened? What happened to my investment here, and that is quite true. And the issues that we have with hedge funds is so back in the late nineties, I think the hedge fund world started to begin and try to maybe become a little bit more mature as far as having access to the high net worth investors.

[00:02:32] And. That was during the dotcom rage and many hedge funds were producing exceptionally outsized gains. And there were several hedge funds that were designed to mitigate risk because that again is the Genesis of what a hedge fund is supposed to do. But these hedge funds in general, started to charge a large.

[00:02:52] They charge a management fee and then they take a percent of their profits. So people viewed them as to being somewhat expensive and back then [00:03:00] hedge funds were producing exceptionally large gains. And all of a sudden people expected that, Hey, if I’m going to go to a hedge fund, I want better than market returns.

[00:03:08] When things go higher, I want better than market returns. When things go lower because I’m paying these guys all sorts of fees. And so what happens is, is then you come into market cycles that we’ve had over the last maybe 10 or 12 years coming off of the global financial crisis of 2008 and 2009. And again, we have very good markets, the hedge funds that we’ve been able to have access to have done exceptionally well.

[00:03:33] But when you turn on the news or you open up a newspaper or you read a financial periodical, they continue to talk about how poorly hedge funds are doing because they’re not doing what the market is doing. And the reality is, again, we’re not expecting them to, there’s no panacea to market volatility.

[00:03:53] You cannot expect to make more money than the market does when it goes higher, yet lose very [00:04:00] little, if anything, when it goes lower or even make money, when it goes lower. It’s just not feasible. And so one of the issues that we’ve always struggled with is what mainstream media how they portray hedge funds to the public, which then when we start talking with clients and prospects, and it’s more so with prospects at this point in time, really trying to educate them on what the objective of our hedge funds are and really what the objectives of most hedge funds are and what you’re paying them for.

[00:04:29] And you’re paying for their ability to protect money on a downside and make a good return on the upside. And if at the end of the day, we get somewhere between 80 to 90% of the return of equities. Yet we do it with a third of the risk. Then we think we’re achieving something pretty special. Where did the idea of a hedge fund originate who came up with it.

[00:04:53] I mean, the hedge funds started decades ago. You know, you really go back to probably the [00:05:00] sixties and seventies. I’m sure there were versions, but they really, again became very popular in the nineties, I’d say early nineties is really when they started to, to build their presence. And when you take a look at some of the top hedge funds that we are utilizing, you know, track records for the most part are going back to the early nineties.

[00:05:17] Um, but again, I’d really say their popularity grew. Very much. So in the mid to late nineties, during the .com blow up because again, you had a lot of people who were making a tremendous amount of money in the late, late nineties, and then you had the really successful ones that not only made money in the late nineties, but then when everything blew up in the two thousands were actually able to protect capital and potentially even make money during those

[00:05:42] three years of the bear market with the S & P 500 was down about 50%. And then you’re off to the races from there. All right. Um, are hedge funds regulated at all? Yes, very much so. And that’s been a topic of conversation? Probably over the last 10 to 15 years [00:06:00] particularly after what those who might remember as the Bernie Madoff fiasco where he essentially.

[00:06:08] Had a Ponzi scheme that took tens of billions of dollars that he essentially stole from investors. Now, fortunately, a lot of that was recovered, but the fact that he was completely unregulated the fact that he self custody, his assets, he created his own statements created a very large black eye for the hedge fund industry.

[00:06:30] And coming out of that. One of the things I believe, you know, the sec looks at and investors look at and regulators look at is separating the ability for, uh, hedge funds to self custody and make sure that they have outside prime brokers, uh, utilizing the large banks who can really verify all the trades that actually get done outside administrators who have the ability to produce the statements, verify the documents.

[00:06:59] [00:07:00] And it’s a very different world that we live in right now. I don’t think you’d ever come across any major firm that would invest in a hedge fund that self clear to their trades. And custody their own assets, probably the largest, no -no in investing at this point in time in 2022. And you make a very good point.

[00:07:21] I think people, when they think of Madoff, they think, oh, Ponzi scheme, Ponzi scheme, but it was hedge funds that he was using. No. Um, he was the hedge fund itself. Um, and so that’s the one thing to keep in mind. The issue that you had though, is that you had other, what are called fund of funds, where an investor might invest with one hedge fund that invested in several other hedge funds, one of them in that instance being Madoff.

[00:07:46] And so that’s where proliferating across. Not just people who were directly invested with Madoff, but then other companies who were invested in his fund as well, or other investors who are invested through other companies that invested in them. [00:08:00] And so again, a black eye for the industry, but one of, hundreds, if not thousands of hedge funds that are out there.

[00:08:08] And again, when you take a look at the warning signs that were out there for somebody like Madoff. People just brushed them aside because the returns that he was getting were exceptionally strong. But when you take a look back and listen to hindsight is always 2020, but when you take a look back and again, you bring up the idea that he was self clearing, he was self custody.

[00:08:31] Yeah, created a, an opportunity for a lot of problems. But again, I think that’s one person that’s one black eye. The reality is it’s a very large industry that has had tremendous amounts of success and, and has provided massive amounts of value for investors both large and small. And that’s something that we’ve recognized.

[00:08:50] And that’s one of the reasons why it’s such a large portion of what we invest as far as our client’s portfolios are concerned. Now your clients, obviously you’re looking at performance. How [00:09:00] do you measure performance? So there’s a great question. So when it comes to our hedge funds, we have a few different strategies, which I know we’ll get into in future podcasts, but just as a broad based scale strategies that we look at for the most part for hedge funds are multi-strategy funds.

[00:09:20] Those are generally the most conservative funds that we’ll invest in. I’ll talk about how we measure performance there. Then we’ve got private credit funds. We have we have what are called event driven funds. We have long short funds. The long short funds can be very conservative, but they can also be a little bit more on the aggressive side.

[00:09:38] And maybe that’s something where we will talk to a client and say, This is going to be an equity substitute. It’s not going to be one of our low risk hedge funds. It might be someone who our goals and objectives are, is to outperform the market in up and down cycles. We’re willing to take on a little bit more volatility.

[00:09:58] And so if the [00:10:00] markets go down 30%, they might go down 25. But if the markets go up 25, they may be up 40. And that’s a conversation that we have with our clients, but that is what I would call a satellite type of strategy as it relates to hedge funds. For what we talk about with our clients, our core holdings within hedge funds for our clients are in the multi-strategy space.

[00:10:24] And these are funds that are insanely diversified. There’s different structures. We have some funds who will have hundreds of different trading teams and they are all allotted a certain amount of capital. We have multi-strategy funds where you generally have, four or five people who, who are in charge of the investment committee though.

[00:10:43] They’ve got, dozens, if not hundreds of people who are doing the work below them, but those funds are very, very, very specific and target in terms of what we’re looking at from a return standpoint. In those instances, if we were to take a look at a market cycle, [00:11:00] we’re generally trying to achieve somewhere close to equity-like returns, remember market cycle being 3, 5, 7 years.

[00:11:08] But what we’re trying to do is get that return with bond-like volatility and the way I try to explain this to clients and prospects is I kind of harken us back to math class when we were all in high school and who remembers standard deviation, nobody remembers or liked to standard deviation. And certainly at 40, 50, 60 years old, 70 years old, they certainly in most instances don’t remember it anyway.

[00:11:37] So what we like to talk to clients about is just bringing them back to the conversation of standard deviation and, just a little precursor for everybody or, or, or a lesson standard deviation, one standard deviation, uh, event basically is supposed to occur two thirds of the time relative to your normal, let’s say an insistence, a rate of return.

[00:11:59] So for [00:12:00] example, if your rate of return is 10% and you have a standard deviation of five, two thirds of the time, you’re either going to be minus 5%. So you’ll be at a positive 5% return relative to your normal, or you might be 5% above the normal, which is now a 15% return. So what we’re looking at is maybe a 10% return, where two thirds of the time, we’re really expecting to be somewhere between plus five.

[00:12:27] And plus 15%. And if you go to a two standard deviation event, you’re in the 90 plus percentile that that’s going to occur. And for our multi-strategy hedge funds, in this example, we’re looking at a two standard deviation event, which would mean we’re basically looking for somewhere between zero and 20% return.

[00:12:47] Well, when you got to swing. Okay. It is. But now let’s take a look at what equities are doing. Equities have a historic return average of about 10% yet they’re doing it with somewhere between a 15 to [00:13:00] 17% standard deviation. So that means one standard deviation event. So the downside you’re now down 5%, one standard deviation event.

[00:13:11] So the upside you’re up 25. So under most instances, under two thirds of the times, your equity returns are going to be somewhere between minus five to plus 25. Whereas that same multi-strategy hedge fund is going to be between positive five and positive 15. They both net out at around 10% over the course of a market cycle.

[00:13:34] So what would you rather own something that’s up 10% more consistently or something that’s up 10% with a lot more volatility. And now let’s take a look at what happens in a large bull market, but more importantly, a large decline. And this is where the hedge funds really start to show their value. Because if you have a market that’s down 20%, that’s a [00:14:00] two standard deviation event.

[00:14:02] Well, not to get technical, but we said a two standard deviation event for a multi-strategy hedge fund puts you at. So now I’ve got equity markets that are down 20% and I’ve got my hedge funds that are down to zero. Why would you not want that? Really? So when we take a look at the first quarter of 2020, when COVID hit, that’s pretty much exactly what happened.

[00:14:25] Markets were down 20, 22% through the quarter. Most of our multi-strategy hedge funds are relatively flat. Some made a little bit, some might’ve lost a little bit, but all relatively in the same ballpark. And now all of a sudden the world’s going to hell in a hand basket markets are down 20 plus percent and people who only have stocks and bonds are losing their minds.

[00:14:47] Because here we go again, here’s another down, down swing. Here’s I’m going to lose all my money again. And then you get people who panic. All right. And then they sell it the wrong time and they [00:15:00] never get back in at the same time. Or they’re just under a whole lot of stress combined with everything else that was going on in the world at that point in time with lockdowns and quarantines and et cetera, but it just creates an emotional issue and you start making irrational decisions.

[00:15:16] And what we like about the hedge funds is they allow our clients to stay grounded. ’cause all of a sudden, you’ve got a large chunk of your portfolio that is very stable. And now all of a sudden you can step back from everything that’s going on and you can start looking at saying, okay, I know I’m supposed to buy the dips.

[00:15:35] Now I can, because I haven’t just lost 20% of my money. Or when markets go down 40%, I haven’t lost 40% of my money. And that’s a very, very, very different dynamic. And that’s why the utilization of the multi-strategy hedge funds for us, which are really designed to be exceptionally low volatility. Very steady, very consistent, really not losing [00:16:00] money in any market cycle.

[00:16:01] That’s not saying they can’t lose money in market cycles, but in general there, they haven’t shown that. And they really have shown to do exceptionally well. Even when you take a look at calendar years with very minimal losses. And so what you’re doing is you’re getting great downside protection for giving up.

[00:16:19] The big swings to the upside. And, and this, this is where the rub is because news media, and this is where we’re talking about. What’s the why is there this massive misunderstanding and this massive misunderstanding comes from the fact that the truth of the matter is markets go up more often than they go down.

[00:16:41] But when they go down, they go down large and they go down quickly and everybody in a tizzy about it and everyone’s in a tizzy. And so what happens is, is everybody forgets the down days and the down months and the down years when everything is working and going really well. And, and, and 2021 for [00:17:00] example was an amazing year.

[00:17:03] For hedge fund analysis. Okay. Particularly in the multi-strategy space. And I’ll tell you why they did exactly what you wanted them to do. They actually even outperformed the market so to speak. But you had to take a look at the full calendar year because we had a very, we, we pretty much had a world of two markets in into what I just, what I was shot 20 22 20, not 2021 in 2020 – the COVID year.

[00:17:28] Right. So the first quarter we talked about equity markets being down somewhere around 20% for the quarter. All right. Hedge funds. We said these multi-strategy funds were relatively flat. Well from April 1st to December 31st equity markets were up 50% massive rally. They ended up being up about 17 or 18% for the year.

[00:17:52] Well, our hedge funds are multi-strategy hedge funds. They were mainly only up maybe about 20 to 25% [00:18:00] during that same timeframe. So, oh my God. Look at this, the market’s up 50% from April 1st to December 31st and hedge funds were only up 20 to 25%. Like, why am I paying these guys a dollar to manage my money?

[00:18:17] Because. Okay. So exactly. So now when you take a look at the calendar year and you say the first quarter equities were down 20, 22%, then they rallied almost 50% and that puts you up, 17, 18, 19, 20% for the year, your hedge funds, multi-strategy relatively flat for the first quarter and then up 20, 25%.

[00:18:43] So now they actually outperform the market for the year. With a lot less stress, but yet from April 1st to December 31st, they drastically underperformed. And that is what the news media picks up on. They don’t [00:19:00] really talk about the full year though. Some might have they focus on the fact that markets were up 50% and the multi-strategy funds were only up 20 to 25.

[00:19:10] Not this. The math. Okay. So here’s the math and this is why we spend so much time educating prospects and educating clients because it is simple math. So let’s come back. Equity markets, average 10%. They went up 50%. That is a little over a 2% standard deviation again, 10 plus 17 is 27 plus 17 a is 44 and we went up 50.

[00:19:45] So we went up a little more than two and a half percent. Okay. Now let’s take a look at what our multi-strategy hedge funds are supposed to do. They’re at 10. One standard deviation puts you to 15, 2 puts you to [00:20:00] 20, 2 and a half puts you into the 22 range. Oh my God. They did exactly what they’re supposed to do.

[00:20:08] And as soon as you explain that to clients and show them and get them to understand and educate them and prospects as well, all of a sudden their mindset change. On whether or not, this is a successful strategy. So it’s just about understanding what your expectations are supposed to be. And the issue that we have is that most people are not educated and they’re not supposed to be.

[00:20:35] They’re getting the vast majority of their hedge fund news from things they read or other podcasts maybe, or. I don’t know, financial periodicals or CNBC, whatever you want to line up. That’s where they’re getting their information. And the information that they get is they’re expensive and they don’t outperform the market.

[00:20:58] Again, they’re not supposed to. [00:21:00] Who is a good client for a hedge fund. So in today’s world, pretty much almost anybody. So when you take a look at where hedge funds started, they started off with exceptionally high minimums where you needed to go direct to the hedge fund itself. And when I say, you know, large minimums, you’re talking about half a million to a million dollars minimum, sometimes even more.

[00:21:32] And so when that happens, there were requirements that were laid out for the investors. Investors needed to be what are called qualified purchasers, which means you have to have investible assets of over $5 million. Now, many of the hedge funds that we utilize are still requiring qualified purchasers, but there’s been a lot of development in the alternatives world whereby you [00:22:00] don’t really go direct to any of these hedge funds anymore.

[00:22:03] There are companies that create conduit vehicles. That you invest through. And therefore the minimums have dropped dramatically sometimes $50,000, most of the times, a minimum of a hundred thousand dollars. So it opens up a whole world for a lot of people from an investment standpoint, whereby they don’t have to commit so much money to one investment.

[00:22:26] You still need to be a qualified purchaser. So you still really need $5 million in investible assets. There are some strategies that allow you to be what’s called a qualified client or accredited investor. Qualified client has to have $2 million of investible assets. An accredited investor, I think is a million or maybe a $200,000 income level.

[00:22:48] So there’s ways to access alternatives. In different formats, depending upon one’s investible assets and one’s net worth. But again, it’s about how do you understand what you’re [00:23:00] buying? Why are you buying it and what the, what, what are your expectations from that particular fund? Because that drives whether or not you’re going to hold on to it.

[00:23:12] Or you’re going to see the market go up 20% in a year, Europe, 10 or 15, and you say, well, why am I paying these guys a fee I’m out? And next thing you know, the markets are down 30 and those guys were flat and they did exactly what you wanted with everything that’s happening in the world now, and event driven fund, or do they pop up?

[00:23:33] I’m thinking specifically of the situation in Ukraine, Ukraine, and Russia, uncertainty in the markets, uncertainty. Economically around the world that because of this does a kind of hedge fund just pop up or does it take a long time to get it going? If it’s going to be based on an event? So when I say event driven, you could have funds that might trade based upon political events, but traditionally in event [00:24:00] driven fund.

[00:24:00] And then we’ll talk about the specifics of some of these funds, I think in a future podcast, but an event driven fund is more so I have company a that we’re looking to invest in and this company has multiple subsidiaries inside of it. And I’m an investor, and I think that they should be spinning out part of their business.

[00:24:19] Essentially the, the investors will look at it and say, you know what? Subsidiary a plus B plus C is worth a lot more than what the company is currently tradingat. And so what they will do is they will, engage with management of that company in an effort to show them the value and maybe potentially get them to spin off one of their subsidiaries to try to unlock value.

[00:24:44] So when we talk about events, we’re talking about an event as it’s related to an actual company, um, and how you unlock some value. In terms of how management is running that company. And that’s just one example of different, event strategies that are [00:25:00] out there, but that’s the general thesis of it.

[00:25:02] And with respect to hedge funds, it’s very important to know any Tom Dick and Harry can, can roll up and create a hedge fund if you register it. And, and do that something that we would really suggest people avoid. Uh, the hedge funds that we work with are forget the fact that they are exceptionally well vetted from third parties on top of the research and due diligence.

[00:25:23] We do. We’re really looking at hedge funds that have 10 plus year track records. Um, multi-billions of dollars under management have been vetted by large institutions and endowments across the country, if not the world. You don’t want to just invest with anybody Willy nilly. And that’s not necessarily because things can go awry.

[00:25:48] It’s just that the cream rises to the crop. And for those who do read the news, you’ll see periodically. There’s a I don’t know, probably it’s this out four or five years ago. [00:26:00] CalPERS, which is California teachers, pension, public employees, and Calsters and all those. Okay. There was, they basically came out with a story that we’re getting rid of our hedge funds.

[00:26:10] Okay. And that was like a big, big, big headline story that they were selling, billions of dollars in getting out of hedge funds. Well, all right, now let’s actually read what they’re doing and let’s actually scratch the surface. And lo and behold, you see. CalPERS in what they call their hedge fund bucket had.

[00:26:29] I think it was literally less than 1% of their overall portfolio in it, in, it was sprinkled. A handful of small positions and keeping them on. When I say small positions, you were actually talking about maybe a few million dollars in a specific fund. And you’re talking about, I don’t know how big CalPERS is at this point in time.

[00:26:51] Yeah. If the a hundred billion dollars, whatever the number is, why do you have an investment for a million dollars when you’re a 50 plus billion [00:27:00] dollar, a hundred billion dollar investment fund, it just makes no sense. So when you take a look at a size of a fund, like a CalPERS, that’s 50, a hundred billion dollars, the issues that they have is that they’re top tier funds that

[00:27:14] we all want to access have taken in tremendous amounts of capital over the years. Uh, they’ve grown their own assets from performance. And so now, unfortunately you find a lot of the top tier funds being exceptionally capacity constraint. And if you have an investment policy that requires you to invest a certain amount of money in a specific area, you have to put that money to work.

[00:27:38] And if you can’t go to fund tier a, then you go down to the frontier b. Then you end up at c and that’s a little bit of the issue that some of these insanely large pensions and endowments come across, and then you have a headline that CalPERS is getting rid of hedge funds. When in reality, it was really a very [00:28:00] minor position.

[00:28:01] They classify the bulk of their multi-strategy hedge funds in a very different line item than hedge funds. And when you take a look at what they are actually getting out of, it was nothing that anybody would have wanted to own. And I can assure you that the tier a multi-strategy hedge funds that we all want to own are not being eliminated in any way, shape or form.

[00:28:24] But again, huge headlines stories for days, clients emailing articles. And it’s just a lack of understanding on the investor’s point. It’s a lack of understanding, and it’s really disappointing on the media point where they really don’t take a look and see exactly what is going on. Now, that’s not to say that we sometimes don’t have issues with capacity because we do, but fortunately for us as a billion and a half dollars, RIA dedicating every year, [00:29:00] 10, 20, $30 million to alternative investments through private equity, real estate multi-strategy hedge funds, satellite positions.

[00:29:09] We don’t have the restrictive problems that. Those large pension funds do. We’re able to get enough capacity every single year with the funds that we want to invest in. And if for some reason we don’t have capacity, we’re going to sit down with our clients or we’re going to say we’re going to be patient and we’re going to wait until we get the capacity, because we don’t have a dictum that says we have to put X amount of dollars to work every second of every day.

[00:29:41] And our clients understand that and our prospects understand that and everybody respects it because at the end of the day, we just want the best performance over the course of a period of time taking on the least amount of risk. Stephen, what topic do you want to talk about in the next podcast? Because this is fascinating.

[00:29:57] We could keep going, but we are, we can have [00:30:00] time. We could keep going. And I think probably the next time around, we’ll dig a little bit deeper into some of the satellite positions and understanding how we construct portfolios for clients. I think it’s very important to understand what again, the objectives are of each of the different segments of the hedge fund world.

[00:30:18] Uh, it’s not all multi-strategy, uh, but it’s also not all funds that we expect to outperform equity markets and you know, when they’re going higher and outperform and when they go lower, because that just doesn’t exist. Um, but again, as I said, we do have different positions as our client’s portfolios grow.

[00:30:36] And there’s also opportunities sometimes where tactically, we will look to do things. Um, and we can talk about that things like private credit, there’s a time and a place for that some will say there’s always a time for a place. Maybe I’ll agree with that, but there’s other times where you really want to try to focus on, on taking opportunity on credit investments, that the average [00:31:00] person.

[00:31:01] And our average mutual fund just can’t get access to. Um, and when you have times of stress, you have bankruptcies, you have recessions things of that nature. Um, there’s opportunities to be very tactical with how you can deploy some of your money, uh, in an illiquid format. And so we can kind of touch on the different segments of the hedge fund markets.

[00:31:20] Before I know in future episodes, uh, we’re going to start talking about private real estate and private equity. All right. I look forward to that. Now, how can listeners reach you? Because I’m sure lots of people are saying what about this? So we always suggest the first place to do is head to our website, which is www.hightowerbethesda.com.

[00:31:43] And there you can start to take a look at exactly what our philosophies are. We’ve got white papers on there, links to our various podcasts that we do, and then you can reach out from us, uh, from that standpoint. And then we’ll always reach back out as quickly as we possibly can. Uh, you can follow us [00:32:00] on Twitter.

[00:32:01] You can follow us on LinkedIn. Uh, whether me personally, Stephen Rosen, or you followed the, firm at Hightower Bethesda. Uh, we’ll, we’ll consistently post, um, whether they be our quarterly updates, blog posts, uh, and of course a new podcasts. Exactly. So follow approach, investing differently that a Stephen’s podcast, you’re listening to it now follow it that way you’ll know in the next one is ready for you.

[00:32:26] When it’s available and share with colleagues and friends, they will find this very interesting I’m Patrice Sikora, and let’s talk again later. Thank you for listening to approach investing differently. Don’t forget to follow the podcast to be notified. Whenever a new episode is released Hightower, LLC is an sec registered investment advisor securities offered through Hightower securities, LLC member FINRA SIPC.

[00:32:52] This podcast was created for informational purposes only. And the opinions expressed here in are solely those of the authors and do not represent those of [00:33:00] Hightower advisors, LLC, or any of its affiliates.