Planning for the Three Phases of Divorce

By Leah Jones on March 3, 2022

There are three stages you should be planning for when you decide that divorce is the right option.

It’s critical that you do your research, plan, and manage your finances during these three stages to avoid potential issues.

In this informative episode, Leah Jones speaks to Stacy Francis, Certified Divorce Financial Analyst and the founder of Savvy Ladies. Leah and Stacy discuss how women should prepare pre, during and post divorce to ensure a smooth transition into their new lifestyle.

Leah and Stacy discuss:

• Pre-divorce planning tips, including steps to take towards taking full control of your own finances, and talking to a matrimonial attorney prior to divorce
• Add-on expenses, and what you should focus on when divorcing to assure the wellbeing of your children
• Your investment portfolio and tailoring it to suit you and meet your needs
• And more

Connect With Leah:

leah.jones@hightoweradvisors.com

https://bethesda.hightoweradvisors.com/index.html

LinkedIn: Leah Jones

301-202-3590

About Our Guest:

Stacy Francis is the President and CEO of Francis Financial, a fee-only boutique wealth management, financial planning and divorce financial planning firm dedicated to providing ongoing comprehensive advice for successful individuals, couples, and women in transition such as divorce or widowhood.

She is a Certified Financial Planner™ (CFP®), Certified Divorce Financial Analyst® (CDFA®), Certified Grief Recovery Specialist® and Certified Estate and Trust Specialist (CES™) with over 20 years of experience in the financial industry. Stacy is also the founder of the non-profit, Savvy Ladies™, host of the Financially Ever After podcast, and the author of Financial Help for Widows: A Complete Resource Guide as well as Unveiling the Unspoken Truth: The Financial Challenges Women Face During and After Divorce. 

Publishing Tags: 

Her Divorce Source, Hightower Bethesda, Leah Jones, Divorce, Stages Of Divorce, Divorce Planning, Financial Planning, Divorce Financing, Francis Financial, Stacy Francis

[00:00:00] Has divorce become a reality and you’re asking yourself now, what, if you have questions about your new life you’re in the right place? Her divorce source with Leah Jones is the go-to podcast for women before, during and after a divorce. Join me, Leah Jones, a certified divorce financial analyst at Hightower Bethesda.

[00:00:22] As I help you envision and create a new life that’s full of possibilities, empowerment, and freedom. I’ll tackle your concerns about lifestyle and money, giving you practical guidance you can use right away. Now let’s get started pre divorce during divorce and after divorce, those are three stages that will change your life.

[00:00:43] And for each one, there are professionals who can help Leah’s guest. This show is Stacy Francis, president and CEO of Francis Financial . A boutique wealth management firm along with being a certified financial planner. Stacy is also a certified divorce financial analyst at a certified estate [00:01:00] and trust specialist.

[00:01:01] In addition, she’s the founder of savvy ladies, a nonprofit to educate and empower women to take control of their finances. Welcome Stacy. Thanks so much for joining us today. I’m ready to talk divorce. 101, 201 and 3 0 1. I’m ready to go. Awesome. Well, I’m ready to hear it, but before you dive in, I want to just tell our listeners something personally that I told you, which is that I have always really respect and admired you as very much a leader in this industry supporting divorcing women.

[00:01:45] You’ve even gone so far as to start a nonprofit savvy ladies, which helps women that are pondering all types of different questions and don’t have the support system and need someplace to go. So I just have to say [00:02:00] again, I really admire and respect you, and I’m super excited that we have such a tenured person on our podcast today to talk about a really important topic.

[00:02:10] So. Just wanted to throw that out there. And then I thought like the best way we could start just so our listeners can learn a little bit more about you is I love your why about why you serve this segment. And so I would love for you to just start off sharing that.

[00:02:29] Why? No, I appreciate that. I, I assume for you too, no one as a little girl dreams about becoming a certified divorce financial analyst when they grow up. Um, we’re, we’re more so thinking about, prince charming. But I, it was a little different for me. I grew up watching my grandmother.

[00:02:47] Stay in an abusive marriage. From when I was a little girl through, till till college. And I finally had the courage to ask her why she stayed and she shared, she felt, she felt [00:03:00] financially trapped. And her story is the story of, of millions of women who find themselves trapped in unhealthy relationships or working at jobs that 

[00:03:12] don’t treat them well. For women in particular, money gives us options and, um, money allows us to live in safe environments. And you know, I saw how devastating that is. My father was abused as well because of this. And she ended up as actually dying and passing away from the abuse and you feel helpless.

[00:03:39] Uh, you obviously are extremely angry. I’m very angry still. And you know, I, this happened many decades ago. But the positive about that. Anger is that it makes you do things to make sure this doesn’t happen to anyone else. And so I launched savvy [00:04:00] ladies and we’ve worked, uh, we worked now pro bono with about 5,000 women each year.

[00:04:04] Some women unfortunately are in similar situations to my grandmother, but many other women have happy stories of, getting their first job and how do I invest my 401k to I’m looking to retire am I on track? So that’s a really wonderful resource and it’s all pro bono and you can just go online savvy ladies.org.

[00:04:21] It’s a really wonderful organized. It is indeed. And I’m really happy to say that I’m a volunteer for savvy ladies. I know you, I know it takes a lot of support to make that happen. But it’s such a noble cause. And I have to say, I still get goosebumps. Like when you tell that story, cause it’s just.

[00:04:40] It’s so inspiring, right? Like you took a very traumatic, very bad situation and now you’re giving so much good from it. So, that’s awesome. And now what I really want to do for our listeners is let’s help them. Right. Let’s give them that knowledge that you’ve learned through all this experience that you have.[00:05:00] 

[00:05:00] And let’s talk about, you know, the things that I wish I knew. And we could probably never possibly cover everything because. There’s always something new. That’s really particular to someone’s situation, but as best as we can, I would love to hear from you. And, and we’ve kind of talked about there’s three phases, so, right.

[00:05:19] Like things I wish I would have known the kind of pre divorce when I’m in the planning during the divorce as we’re going through things and then after the divorce. So we’re going to really try to touch on all three with, uh, some savvy lady tips here. So let’s just start with pre divorce. Yeah. It’s um, you know, we, we actually interviewed women going through divorce and, and ask them this question.

[00:05:42] What do you wish you, you knew? The majority of them were not in the driver’s seat of their finances, their, their spouse was, uh, and they shared that they wished that they had been more involved. Because they came to starting the divorce process, not really [00:06:00] knowing what the assets looked like, not having a good feel of what their spending really was, even if they were paying the bills and, and not knowing what debts look like.

[00:06:09] And unfortunately divorce is a very expensive time to learn all that information because. Number one you’re behind the eight ball. You don’t really know what you have. It makes it much harder to negotiate. And if your spouse is not forthcoming with that information, then it becomes even more expensive of trying to find out these assets much easier just to be involved from the very beginning.

[00:06:37] I would say I have, I’ve definitely seen that as well with uh, a lot of times women do pay the bills, so it’s, they feel like they’re, there’s kind of a false. Sense of security around having an understanding what’s going on because they are, paying the bills or they might be in charge of a lot of the spending, women are primarily, usually the ones like spending, buying household [00:07:00] goods, groceries, you know, that type of taking care of the kids, payments, those types of things, um, health care, but yeah, having the bigger picture of okay. Savings and investments and outside investments that we might’ve done, or where are we on the real list?

[00:07:14] Like real estate, how much actually equity do we have? Those types of things. Yeah, I would agree. It’s it’s we want both parties in a relationship to always be aware of them, but just, it is, I think there’s a certain natural. Force that happens where someone that tends to be better at it, does it.

[00:07:30] And then the other person defers to them. And then once you’re in this situation, it’s like, oh boy, I got a lot to catch up on. So what type of things do you recommend people do once they have that awareness? Oh, I need to, know more, it’s a great question. And you know, and even people who are happily married eight out of 10 women at some point in their life are going to be a hundred percent on their own making their own financial decisions.

[00:07:54] So this is, you know, this is not a nice to have or just really for women thinking about divorce. [00:08:00] And the most important thing to do is starting to open the mail creating a spreadsheet where you’re listing out all of the retirement assets, all of the non-retirement assets, bank accounts, checking accounts, any debts, whether it’s card loans or mortgages the value of your homes and starting to put those pieces so that you have a real clear picture.

[00:08:23] Um, and when you’re doing. The second thing to think about was, is this marital or is this separate, separate property? Is, is property that you brought to the marriage, or it could be an inheritance that you received during the marriage. Um, and marital property is, is what was purchased with earnings during the marriage.

[00:08:43] And so maybe a 401k, a primary home so that you also have a good picture of, what is going to be yours potentially after. And am I going to be okay with this? Do I need to start to invest in myself in my career? [00:09:00] Do I need to start to really track my expenses? For everyone. Yes. And D do I need to potentially down the line, reduce some of those expenses?

[00:09:11] Now these are all really important pieces that are pretty simple and pretty straightforward that will really set you up for success, not only through your divorce, but you know, for the rest of your life, really for the rest of your life. Absolutely. Yeah. I think that’s the best way to look at it is I’m not just doing this because of my divorce.

[00:09:31] I’m doing this because it’s going to be best for me in the long run. Yeah. Great point. So any other kind of big wish you would’ve known pre divorce planning tips? Yeah. One of the other things that women shared is how important their team was. And when I say a team, everybody thinks they’re a matrimonial attorney and of course, that’s, you know, you need your matrimonial attorney and you should meet with someone.

[00:09:59] Even if you’re [00:10:00] not sure you want to get divorced 100% just to become informed. And the more information you have, the better you’re going to feel about your decision of whether you stay or whether you go. The other professional I highly recommend is a therapist. I live in New York city. Everybody has a therapist just to live in New York city to get through.

[00:10:21] The honking of buses and the, you know, let alone going through one of the most traumatic times of your life. And, and I see a remarkable difference of those people that have that mental health support and how they navigate this process. And they come out such so much more whole at the end. And then.

[00:10:39] Allow themselves to be triggered maybe in some of the same ways that, that others that don’t have that support and someone like you, uh, someone like me, uh, a certified divorce, financial analyst. And I think what’s really important when you’re out there interviewing someone is that you ask them, you know, how many cases have you worked on?

[00:10:57] There’s some great what we call CDFI’s [00:11:00] out there, but some may only have worked on two cases or five cases or 10 cases. You want someone who’s been doing this for a long time, so that none of what you’re presenting is new and that they can really hit the ground running, supporting you and supporting your lawyer for what your financial needs are.

[00:11:18] Not only today, but also being able to look at the future and, and know what your needs are. If you’re going to be okay. Financially. Absolutely. And the one question I would add to that when you’re talking or considering working with a financial professional is what, what does the typical profile of someone that you work with looks like, because that’s obviously going to be very different from person to person too. And I think the other thing too, that we had talked about. It really kind of depends on how, what the tone of your divorce is going to be to build your team, right?

[00:11:57] So if it’s going to be pretty [00:12:00] amicable and maybe there’s not a lot of assets at stake, or the assets are very clear, right? This is just going to get split 50 50. And that’s what it is. We got married at 20, we’re getting divorced at 35, everything that was created during that 15 years. Is split 50 50 and that’s it.

[00:12:16] So, in those cases you’re looking for really like more of a mediator, right? Because a high, highly litigious family law attorney is not going to add that much value in, in that situation. But if there’s a lot of money at stake and you’re thinking to yourself, Hmm. I know my husband got a million dollar bonus.

[00:12:37] And when I look in the bank account, there’s nothing there. What happened to that money, then, you know, you might need like a forensic accountant or you, you know, so if there’s questions about where did things go or things aren’t reconciling, or you’re really fearful that things have happened, that, you don’t have an awareness of, then that’s obviously going to be a different kind of team.

[00:12:57] So I guess that’s probably an [00:13:00] important piece too, is to figure out where you are. Yeah. And I’m really, really glad that you brought that up. I’m talking about a forensic talking about, what method is best for you. I’m, I’m working on a case right now and they’re in mediation. And, uh, the wife that we’re working with was never really involved in the finances.

[00:13:19] And so now she’s coming to mediation and her husband has been not forthright. The information and not forthright with the actual values. And he gave her a sample split where she would get 30% of the assets and he would get 70. I’m not sure where he came up with this it’s all marital assets. So that was a little bit of a surprise and then the value on the real estate.

[00:13:48] So he’s a big real estate investor and there’s 12 properties. Are really low. And so we scrounged and found a loan document where he was applying for a [00:14:00] loan where he listed all of the real estate properties and the value between what he was reporting and what was on this from even years ago, which we know they’re worth more.

[00:14:12] The value is over $3 million difference. Wow. And they’re in mediation. And I think it’s completely the wrong process to use because the mediator has her hands tied and she’s trying to do everything right. But she can’t advocate for my clients because, and so they hired us to try and do that from outside.

[00:14:35] But you know, that’s part of it too. If you have someone that you feel like is not being forthright or. Being a little shady or potentially bullying you. If you have any type of financial abuse, emotional abuse or physical abuse, mediation may not be the right fit for you. I know from my grandma, I would never have her mediate with my grandfather.[00:15:00] 

[00:15:00] He was a, he was the biggest bully you could imagine. And he would have just bulldozed over her, So really important, important, yeah. Red flags, right? Look red flags. Red. Red. Yes. Yes. Look for those red flags. So if any of those things that Stacy just mentioned are resonating with you and, you’re trying to go through it the amicable way.

[00:15:25] Unfortunately, you may not be able to write because at the end of the day and I’ve seen this with women sometimes too, particularly if they were in a bullying relationship or some type of abuse is that they just want to get out and they feel guilty for various reasons that they shouldn’t. And so, especially if the man was making the money and so they’re willing to almost say, oh yeah, that’s 70, 30, like seems fair to me.

[00:15:48] Oh, it’s not, but that’s kind of how you have been led to believe. Yeah. Yeah. You’ve been, you know, you’ve been brainwashed, you’ve many gaslighted. I mean, all these just awful, [00:16:00] awful things. And sometimes you’re just really tired and you just want to get out of this and you want to start your life again.

[00:16:07] But the thing is, you know, especially if you have kids hang in there to make sure that you have enough for the kids that you can provide for them and know. If, if it’s just you hang in there, because would you tell your best friend to hang in there and make sure she goes okay financially? Yes. So do the same thing for yourself.

[00:16:27] And I think that the kids thing, let’s talk a little bit about that, right? Because I think there’s a number of pre-work that people need to factor in when they do have kids. So tell me a little bit about, about those numbers that are important for women to focus on. You know, it’s interesting women who have children we, we have a lot more at stake.

[00:16:50] And divorce for us can be a lot more difficult because we want to keep things as, as similar as we can for our children [00:17:00] so that they don’t. They, they don’t experience the difficulty of, of divorce for, for having kids. It becomes even that much more important to understand the expenses. So not only the expenses for you and for Fido and for, you know, living in your house.

[00:17:17] But what are the expenses for the kids? Because those are all factors. What, what is private school for Johnny and, and tutoring for Sally? Um, how much do you pay for those really expensive ice skating lessons? Plus We’re going on Thursday for the next set of orthodontia for my daughter. And I just wrote a $12,000 check.

[00:17:38] I still can’t believe that that’s like a vacation that’s, that’s several vacations. These expenses are really important in the expenses that I just highlighted or what’s called add on expenses. So, um, they’re typically not covered by child support and are negotiated separately. And often what we see is, you know, if she’s the primary earner you know, maybe she covers 75% of the expenses and he [00:18:00] covers 25.

[00:18:01] If there’s a stay-at-home parent sometimes. One parent covers a hundred percent of those add on expenses, which are medical, private school, tutoring, extracurricular activities, things like that. And then there’s all the other pieces that child support would cover. And that’s food, clothing just normal expenses that a child has, but the majority of people.

[00:18:24] My self I’m going to throw myself under the bus too. We have no fricking clue what we’re spending in general, let alone, how much of that Amazon bill that you look at at the end of the year, went towards kids shoes versus groceries. And so it’s a, it’s a time intensive exercise, but it’s the best thing you can do to, to make sure that.

[00:18:50] What your, what, what you’re saying you need for child support or what you can pay for tots, but whatever that is that you actually [00:19:00] know that, that you’re not just picking a number out of the hat. And I will always, I will tell you something. I know when someone has not really done a good job. Is that when I look at the categories and all the expenses, they, they all end in zeros or fives.

[00:19:18] So they haven’t gotten nitty gritty enough. Huh? So all of you listeners, if you did your budget and it ends in a zero or five at the end of that number, you fall apart. You’ve been caught, you’ve been caught. We caught you. Oh my gosh. Yeah. The Amazon thing, I chuckle at that too, because I know it’s hard, right? Amazon Costco target, they just get in these kind of like lump sums, but there are things that people are buying for different totally different reasons, you know?

[00:19:51] Yeah. Yeah, I, I find that like always really fascinating is like, okay, how do you actually start to dissect those things? And you really do need to, because [00:20:00] it does matter. All right, well, let’s move on to, during the divorce. During the divorce. Yes. This is where having your team in place and getting educated is really key because not all assets are the same and a dollar that’s in your checking account is valued differently than a dollar that might be in your brokerage account or your dollar that’s in your retirement account.

[00:20:26] And so that retirement account, let’s say it’s a regular 401k. Eventually when you take it out that dollar, you pay 40 cents to the government and you get 60 cents in your pocket. That kind of sucks. And with a checking account, you take a dollar out it’s dollar in your pocket. And so I’m actually working on a divorce.

[00:20:46] Case right now where he said, you know what? You take the retirement accounts, which they’re all taxable retirement accounts. Like I just explained, and I’m going to take all of the savings and the checking accounts, [00:21:00] same dollar amounts, each of them 500,000, but they’re not. The same. So understanding what the tax impact is, and brokerage accounts are a little, little tougher, those non-retirement accounts, because what you’re going to owe in taxes for each one is a little different.

[00:21:21] It depends on what you, you bought it for kind of like the house. If you keep the house, you bought it for 500,000 and less real estate has done really well. It’s gone up to 2 million. You know, you have $1.5 million in gains that you potentially might have to pay taxes on. Um, so that’s really important understanding what is the after tax impact of all these different assets and, and also.

[00:21:47] Is this a good asset for me? Taking a hedge fund that you are locked up in with very high risk may not be the right thing or private equity that you can’t sell out of. [00:22:00] May not be the right thing for you. That’s really important. And the third piece is, can I afford this asset? I just talked about the primary home biggest mistake.

[00:22:09] I see an asset division is taking the primary home because you want the kids to stay there and have that stability, which I a hundred percent get. And then you can’t afford it, or you can’t refinance the mortgage out of. To have your names as a couple, just your name, because you don’t have enough income or don’t have enough assets and you find yourself in a tough situation.

[00:22:35] It’s really sad. I see that. I see that all the time. I mean, it’s so it’s almost like 95% probability that a divorcing woman is going to, if they have kids in particular is going to say, I want to stay in the home with the kids and sometimes it works, but that’s where you lean on your CDFA. That divorce financial analyst to say, okay, put this in [00:23:00] my financial plan.

[00:23:00] My financial roadmap, let’s look out to age 95. Does this work? And maybe you do have to sell, but maybe it’s not for another 15 years. Okay. I get that. That’s not a problem, but if it puts you financially behind and you can see very quickly that your financial plan is running out of money at age 65.

[00:23:24] You, you need to think about it from a different perspective of what’s better for me and the kids to be in this home or to be in another place. Maybe the same neighborhood, even that’s smaller, that allows me to take care of them. And it allows me to take care of myself. But it’s the hardest, it’s the most emotional piece I think, of, of the entire divorce.

[00:23:47] It really is. Yeah. And not, not, not to make too many plugs for ourselves being involved, but you have to remove the emotion. From the [00:24:00] equation. So whoever it is that can help you do that is who you need to talk to because to your point, the bigger question is, am I going to be okay in the longer term?

[00:24:10] And what are the consequences of some of these shorter term decisions? And I think that example you gave of the husband saying you take all the retirement assets and then him taking all the non-retirement assets. Sure. You know, probably not that intention like seems, seems even enough. They might not even know the difference in the assets, but obviously in the one case for the woman, if she takes anything out, she gets a huge penalty.

[00:24:34] She has to pay taxes on it. And then of course now she doesn’t have any retirement assets. So like that scenario, unfortunately, like it. Play out sometimes when there isn’t somebody, checking it and helping them come to those conclusions, same thing with the house. Like, okay. As a couple, you guys work out something where the wife is able to stay in the house, but now that’s her biggest asset.

[00:24:55] So her million dollar asset is the house, the [00:25:00] husband’s million dollar asset is cash and stocks and things like that. Well, you know, as well as I know, and some of our listeners might not agree with me, but you know, real estate historically kind of only keeps up with inflation, whereas, equities.

[00:25:15] Perform a lot better. So, you know, if you just take that static 1 million over all those years, plus equities, don’t come back to you and say, I need a new roof and

[00:25:27] various windows right now. No pipes burst in the, in that investment portfolio either. Exactly, exactly. So, so, so, right. So it’s like that the ration has to be brought back into this and then say, okay, at the end of the day, 10 years from now, how did both these people look at. How does that make you feel?

[00:25:45] Is that are you, is it okay for you or do you say no? You know what? I don’t want that. And, and I’ll just say another thing about the house. I interviewed Devon Barrett who works with me at Francis financial. He’s a divorce financial analyst. And he went through [00:26:00] divorce when he was a little boy.

[00:26:01] His parents got divorced and they moved to a new, a new place. And I asked him about that. I said, how hard was that for you? And he said, you know what? It, wasn’t hard. What I cared most about was just being near my friends. Going to the same school, having, you know, the ability to still do the extracurricular, that didn’t really bother me.

[00:26:22] And it was interesting because we had to move abruptly in August. And I shared this with you a little a little bit ago, but our, our house had a flood, a pipe burst and everything was destroyed. And so we had to move. To a new apartment, lived in a hotel for about three weeks. And we’re still, we’re still here and my kids are great with it.

[00:26:46] And what we realize is that home is where the people you love are like that’s right. And where the dogs are. And, we were able to rescue a few things. So they have some things around them that are normal, but they’re really happy kids [00:27:00] they’re doing really well. And. It was a really good learning opportunity for me, how yes, the house is important, but it’s not as important sometimes as we think, you know, and kids are much more resilient than.

[00:27:15] I would say, even I am, I suffered with this much more than they did my God. Well, we get set. It was so much more set in our ways. Yes. Yeah. Kids are so resilient. Yeah. I mean, last, last thing. And I know we’ve, we’ve talked about this is, is risk profile like during the divorce, right? So oftentimes I see couples and they’re never have the same risk.

[00:27:39] Right? One’s more conservative. Of a risk-taker like always right. And it’s not always the man being more of a risk taker, but I’ve seen it a fair amount of times being that way. And so again, that’s like another thing that’s very nuanced and you have to actually understand what type of investments they are to [00:28:00] say.

[00:28:01] Because I, I can tell you every divorcing woman I’ve ever worked with, I’ve had to make some pretty significant adjustments to the portfolio to bring it in line with something that I always say to my clients, I need to know that you can sleep well at night. I don’t want you to like waking up in a panic at night, like worried about your portfolio.

[00:28:17] And so that’s, that’s one other thing I’d add in that. No, I a hundred percent agree. It’s like, can you fit in your husband’s pants? Most likely not. So you probably shouldn’t be wearing his investment portfolio either. And yeah. And in fact, one of our clients, her husband was a financial advisor and, um, the portfolio was split 50 50.

[00:28:41] And so once we got her portfolio to review 35% was invested in Vietnam. Which I lovely country, but, but you shouldn’t be having 35% of your portfolio and invested in, emerging markets let alone one country. So, that was a an interesting [00:29:00] opportunity because her, her then ex actually was just mortified that she would ever sell these amazing investments.

[00:29:08] FYI, they, they tanked after. Thank goodness. But yeah, you, you, you, you really want to make sure that it’s tailored to you, right. And your needs and what, what you need that portfolio to do and, and carry, carry down the road. And, and that is, part of that. Maybe you can’t make changes during the divorce, but you bet that after the divorce, what you should be looking at.

[00:29:31] Yeah, that’s very, very important. Well let’s, since we started going there anyways, let’s talk about after the divorce, you queued it up, you queued it up making sure that all the assets are divided and transferred. I, I know that sounds like basic, but Yeah. I just had a lovely woman reach out to us to help her transfer an asset from her divorce 12 years ago.

[00:29:53] A Quadro and a Quadro is a document that helps you split a retirement plan. And [00:30:00] the challenge is that there’s been a lot of growth in that retirement plan. So what portion was, is he entitled to, that he was entitled to 12 years ago versus the amount that it’s grown to today, plus she’s contributed to it.

[00:30:11] Make sure that all of those assets are transferred and, and make sure that they’re transferred the way that the agreement says. If it says 50 50, make sure that you get 50% of the brokerage account 50% of every stock, 50% of every bond versus maybe only stocks that have really low basis, meaning that you would owe a lot in taxes.

[00:30:33] So just be really careful about that. And then also sometimes settlement agreements will say things like we’ll receive payment for 50% of restricted stock units when they’re vest. Those restricted stock units, if they’re in the name of the employee happens to be, let’s say your ex-husband, they have to stay with him and you need to track and know that when they vest that that payment comes to you.[00:31:00] 

[00:31:01] Really important and key. And so often there’s payments in the future. And so putting reminders in the calendar a trick I do is I send myself an email to be delivered in, in the future. That’s how I remember everybody’s birthdays because I get an email saying, don’t forget it’s so-and-so’s birthday tomorrow.

[00:31:18] That’s my secret. That’s my secret. Now everybody knows. But that’s important in of course there’s a state planning and I don’t know if you have any horror stories and I hope not, but sometimes people don’t change their beneficiaries in their, in, on their investment accounts or retirement accounts and they don’t change their will.

[00:31:36] And their husbands still is able to make medical decisions or God forbid, financial decisions for them really tough things that can happen and really derail your, your, your estate plan. And this. Always important, but especially, especially for you know, families where you might even get remarried or your spouse might get remarried and [00:32:00] have then stepchildren.

[00:32:01] And you want to make sure that your kids are provided for too. So, really important to look at all of those things, life insurance as well, and all those pieces. I know it’s not fun. I mean, who wants to, I would rather spend money on a vacation then update my will. But I have to tell you it’s the best love letter you could ever give to the people you love is having that, all up to date.

[00:32:27] So yeah. Pieces there of information. Stacy, so the Quadros I just want to add my perspective on those too. So, just a legal document to split the retirement account, like you said, but it, it has so many different outcomes. So, in terms of getting executed, In a timely fashion. So I have, I had one recently that was like two weeks, which I shouldn’t even share on this call.

[00:32:57] Cause it’s probably setting an unrealistic, [00:33:00] all you listeners that that’ll never happen. See, that’s like seeing a unicorn. Okay. Very rare. I’ve seen ones take over a year. so unfortunately, again, this is a piece that you have to stay on top of, and sometimes they will come back and say, well, we didn’t like this, or we didn’t like that about the document.

[00:33:20] And then if you’re, and then if you are not following up, because. Probably the person’s plan. It is doesn’t necessarily care how timely you get the money. Right. Clearly in the case of this, uh, client that just came to you was 12 years and he was quite happy to leave the money in his account. So, you know, it’s on the ownership of that is on.

[00:33:41] You. And there are so many things and I know we provide checklists. I’m sure you do too, where it’s literally, cause we’re talking about the big, some of the really big things you hit on, but it goes all the way down to, Hey, did you have a joint credit card? Were you an authorized user? Did you remove that person?

[00:33:57] Medical insurance. I was just [00:34:00] with someone recently who was like, I think my husband’s still on my, medical. Insurance it’s you’re like, oh, I think it’s a family plan. So it’s not like that big of a deal. And I’m like, actually that’s not allowed here. It doesn’t we still have your husband on there.

[00:34:15] But, but that, these are the things that kind of fall through the cracks. So, same thing with like insurance, like updating your, your auto updating your homeowners to, be in your name for, for your coach. I mean, there’s so many. So many pieces and something, I just want to say a word to the, I I’ve never heard this.

[00:34:34] And I was so angry yesterday when I heard this from a client. Back to the Quadro, which is for everyone to qualified domestic relations order. That’s that, that legal document that, that we were talking about, it was submitted to the financial advisor to split a Pension. And he told my client, he would not split the account unless [00:35:00] she stayed with him and kept the money with him, which is, I’m just sharing this out there because I never in a million years would have ever expected someone to be that sleazy.

[00:35:12] Know that those assets are yours. You can take them anywhere. You want to Vanguard to whatever they’re yours and that that financial advisor can not in any way manipulate you to have to stay with them. That’s awful. Yeah. Well, I, I will be reaching out with, I don’t know if it’s FINRA or the SEC, but and, and I would just say too, I mean, if, if, if something seems odd like that, talk to your matrimonial attorney, talk, things like that. And because sometimes, sometimes, and this is awful to say, but some people will try to take advantage of. A person who is going through a really difficult time and it’s [00:36:00] just really not, right. So, unfortunately you’re right. There’s a lot of people with not the best motives out there, but I think in, in kind of closing one thing that I know you and I are huge advocates of, and I think it would be a good topic to close on is the best thing you can do after the divorce, during this whole process.

[00:36:20] But particularly after. Take care of yourself. And I know you and I adamantly agree on this. So talk about that a little bit. Uh, I mean, taking care of yourself means so many things and we just talked about financially taking care of yourself, but it’s also the other things like what’s, you know, what’s your bucket list?

[00:36:39] What do you want to do? Um, I’ve not met one. One person that we help through divorce that isn’t happier on the other side and the people I see also that are. The most joyous and are the happiest are those who really do live and embrace their life. [00:37:00] And so maybe it’s traveling, maybe it’s taking up a new, new hobby, and I know that’s so hard to do with kids, but, bring the kids along.

[00:37:08] I, my, my daughter and I are learning indoor skydiving together who knew it’s really fun. taking care of yourself also. With exercise and eating and, just all these, these pieces that are so important. If anything, you as a single parent, your health is even more important now because you know, when you have kids, they’re a hundred percent yours and you know, if the kids are not with you anymore and they’re adults, well, Divorce on kids, even adults, they feel it too, and they really want you around and they really want you to have a nice long, healthy life.

[00:37:49] So, take care of yourself. I, one of the things that just really scares me is when I see older individuals having a hard time walking [00:38:00] and my, my. Step-mom is one of them and she was with us over Christmas and she could barely walk up the steps and it’s from not moving. It’s from not exercising.

[00:38:14] It’s from not taking care of yourself. And of course things happen. But I can’t stress that enough. I can’t stress that enough. And there’s a great book that I read called one year younger. And if there’s any book to kick you in the. To get healthy and start moving. It is that, and it’s a really good book, really good book.

[00:38:35] It’s very in your face, but sometimes, sometimes you need to be in your face and it’s really written for any age, but primarily for people who are like 50 and above and to how important, especially for women exercises to keep us healthy and living long and healthy. Awesome. Well, we’re going to have to check out that book one year younger, and I’ve always heard [00:39:00] that, 30 minutes of exercise a day and that doesn’t have to be anything intense.

[00:39:03] It could be just walking or doing something right. Other than sitting is, is. Good place to start. So well, thank you so much uh, Stacy, for all your input. I think there’s so much different insight you provided between things to think about pre divorce. Start to get your checklist together, start to understand what your financial makeup looks like.

[00:39:26] Have your own passwords, check the mail, know what’s going on. Plan for the kids. If you do have kids, make sure you take in. Pretty detailed calculations. Don’t put a zero or five at the end or else your advisor will know that you fudged it. Exactly. And you’ll be found out that’s right. And then, during the divorce, like just really start to get even more granular about the assets and what your profile is going to look like after the split and just ensuring that that’s the best long-term.

[00:39:59] Investment [00:40:00] that you can make in yourself is really understanding those details and being thoughtful about them. Having a team that can help support you make those decisions and remove the emotion from the equation. And then, finally, just after the divorce, just know, unfortunately it’s not over.

[00:40:17] It’s not over totally yet. You have still a lot of work to do to just clean up that kind of legal arrangement that you had and just make sure that everything is the way that you want it now going forward. And then also you’re getting, what is. To you back. So I think these, these were all really great spot on.

[00:40:36] I know that we could probably talk about this for hours, cause there’s much more and you’ve done a whole study on it. But you know, we’re trying to give some high-level advice here. And so thank you so much, Stacy, for all of your insight today. Thank you. And thank you for doing this. I, I just, I so commend you putting great information out to be helpful.

[00:40:55] It’s really wonderful. Thank you. Thanks for bringing me, my guest, Stacy and Leah. [00:41:00] Yes. That was great information. And I hope that we have another podcast with the two of you with even more was really good. So everybody who’s listening, follow Leah Jones podcast Her Divorce Source, make sure you know, when the next episode is ready for you and maybe Stacy will be on again.

[00:41:14] And of course share it with others because this is great stuff. Thank you for listening to her divorce source with Leah Jones from Hightower, Bethesda. Don’t forget to follow the podcast to be notified. Whenever a new episode is released

[00:41:28] Hightower, LLC is an sec registered investment advisor securities offered through Hightower securities, LLC member FINRA SIPC. This podcast was created for informational purposes only. And the opinions expressed here in are solely those of the authors and do not represent those of high tower advisors, LLC, or any of its affiliates.